AOL & SmartMoney.com condone illegal behavior

[LMS]

UGH, granted this is far more infuriating for me than for most people, but AOL and SmartMoney.com put out a Top 5 Annoying School Expenses list.. one of which is School Photos.
That doesn't irritate me
What irritates me is that in their explination of how to save money when buying Photos, they recommend buying one and scanning it for reprints.

hello?
can you say ILLEGAL!?!
I'm so livid right now. It makes me sick that anyone (especially two companies who are so prominent) would pass out advice about breaking laws that can land someone a $250,000 fine AND 5 years in prison.
Yes, all for copying ONE measly photograph - that's what you get.

So I wrote to them today.
Explaining that "one measly photograph" is a lot more than that.
It's several thousand dollars worth of equipment
it's hundreds of hours learning about creative cropping, custom white balancing, how to manipulate light to give your photo the look you want,
it's HOURS in front of a computer editing images
it's several more hours processing one order.
and if these people follow this authors instructions to buy one photo form, say $12, then copy it... that effectively means that that photographer is making less than $1 an hour.

I also asked if she'd like it if i took her written work and distributed it without her consent, and without forwarding any ceridt or monetary gain to her ;)
So if you so feel compelled, write to AOL telling them you think it's morally rebrehnsible that they are outright condoning illegal activity.

In the words of someone else I know "It's only a matter of time before they tell you to shoplift b/c your kids christmas gifts are just too pricey"

Here's the link:
http://money.aol.com/top5/general/most-obnoxious-school-costs-2


and in case the hundreds of photographers that have emailed them for the last 48 hours, or the lawyers at lifetouch and other huge school portraiture studios who are in ont rying to get this retracted have ANY effect on this, you can see a screenshot here
http://www.brainbucketmagazine.com/coppermine/displayimage/album=120/pos=0.html

[jellybeanmichelle]

You go girl!
I know in another thread we were discussing santa photos.
Yes, those cost alot, but they don't do all the stuff that you or any other photo company would do. So I admit, we made photo copies.
If you took Victoria's picture's, or JcPenny, I will pay for the reprints, because I want that high quality, that a copier does not give. I still have my photos printed at Walgreen's, even though my printer will print photos. It's just not the same.
So, I'm with you Jackie!
After reading the article, I'm in the Fundraising business, the #1 spot.
I'll have to think about that.

[My3sonsplus1]

the people who did J's school picture were actually quite reasonable. Like $5 a sheet I think. maybe 10. I just remember it being not outrageous. You were able to buy by the sheet which I like since we don't give out a ton of pictures and they had offers of buy 2 get a third free buy one of the 3 packages get some other deal...
I read the screenshot and it seems kinda open ended, it just said to scan a picture and send to grandma, not to send to have her reprint though I realize the implication is that she would but I am not sure if that would be a legal loophole. And I am quite sure I have read that suggestion in other publications in the past :(

[Lynette]

I can't believe they are so dumb to print something like that and not realized it was copyrighted material?? Do a little more research folks.

Personally, I stopped buying school photos years ago because not only were they expensive but they sucked. They sit the kid on the stool, "Say cheese!", click, and then NEXT! After the 2nd or 3rd school pic that wasn't centered, she is in mid-smile or blink, etc I went to having pros do them because even if I went the cheap way and went to Sears they do a better job...

I would *defintely* agree that fundraising is really annoying with schools not only because they do it so much but that they seem to HAVE to to keep programs going.

[LMS]

the people who did J's school picture were actually quite reasonable. Like $5 a sheet I think. maybe 10. I just remember it being not outrageous. You were able to buy by the sheet which I like since we don't give out a ton of pictures and they had offers of buy 2 get a third free buy one of the 3 packages get some other deal...
I read the screenshot and it seems kinda open ended, it just said to scan a picture and send to grandma, not to send to have her reprint though I realize the implication is that she would but I am not sure if that would be a legal loophole. And I am quite sure I have read that suggestion in other publications in the past :(
Even if you are only scanning for our own personal use (screensaver, myspace, etc) it is still 110% ILLEGAL.

Scanning is considered a "digital reproduction" and is also considered copyright infringement

eta: a good example someone on one of my photo forums made is that if you were to scan every page of a book (copywritten material) and post it online, it's just as bad as scanning it to print. Both ways, it's illegal.

[LMS]

I can't believe they are so dumb to print something like that and not realized it was copyrighted material?? Do a little more research folks.

Personally, I stopped buying school photos years ago because not only were they expensive but they sucked. They sit the kid on the stool, "Say cheese!", click, and then NEXT! After the 2nd or 3rd school pic that wasn't centered, she is in mid-smile or blink, etc I went to having pros do them because even if I went the cheap way and went to Sears they do a better job...

I would *defintely* agree that fundraising is really annoying with schools not only because they do it so much but that they seem to HAVE to to keep programs going.

I completely agree. With the way school photos are done, they aren't good quality. The time isnt' taken to ALLOW them to be good quality - not that that's anyones fault... with that many kids, you can't really take 30 min per kid, kwim?
It's just unfortunate that b/c the "sessions" for school photos are so quick, that they assume they aren't worthy of their copyright

[LMS]

You go girl!
I know in another thread we were discussing santa photos.
Yes, those cost alot, but they don't do all the stuff that you or any other photo company would do. So I admit, we made photo copies.
If you took Victoria's picture's, or JcPenny, I will pay for the reprints, because I want that high quality, that a copier does not give. I still have my photos printed at Walgreen's, even though my printer will print photos. It's just not the same.
So, I'm with you Jackie!
After reading the article, I'm in the Fundraising business, the #1 spot.
I'll have to think about that.

As far as santa photos, etc.. they ARE protected by copyright law. HOWEVER, providing a client with a digital image in a printable size is implication that they are permitted to print the photo on their own.
If they didn't want people to print them themselves, they wouldn't offer a CD.

hence why a full resolution CD of images from my sessions is $900.
Will anyone ever buy it? Probably not.
But if they do, atleast I know i was not only paid for my time, but for the images they didn't buy from me b/c of buying the CD

[Lynette]

It's just unfortunate that b/c the "sessions" for school photos are so quick, that they assume they aren't worthy of their copyright

Good point! Besides, have you ever tried copying stuff like that? The color comes out all funky. I don't mind paying $$$ for pics because they are priceless, just make them good ones, ya know?

Brian actually has this *thing* about pics of the kids because when Alaina was really little we had some done at a portrait place and I had to send him to pick up the order. Well when he got there, they had printed out some more and asked if he wanted to buy them too?! That sentimental goof came home with all these additional pics (obviously I had already picked out the best ones!) because he "just couldn't let them throw the baby away in the garbage"! LOL! He actually asked me when you did the pics Jackie if you printed them out to look at because he didn't want them thrown away afterwards!

[daisydoc]

WOW is AOL stupid!!!! This one is going to bite them in the A$$ bigtime! Walgreens made me go back to the Santa Place (2 yrs ago before they offered a CD) and get one of the employees to sign a release so I could make copies to put in our Christmas cards.

Oh... and BTW... was in the Plaza this morning. The Santa Place there offers the photo on disc for (OMG I can't remember now the exact price... so this is guessing but I know it's close to the price she told me :lol) like 25.95 by itself or 12.95 with a package of prints from them.

[LMS]

Good point! Besides, have you ever tried copying stuff like that? The color comes out all funky. I don't mind paying $$$ for pics because they are priceless, just make them good ones, ya know?

Brian actually has this *thing* about pics of the kids because when Alaina was really little we had some done at a portrait place and I had to send him to pick up the order. Well when he got there, they had printed out some more and asked if he wanted to buy them too?! That sentimental goof came home with all these additional pics (obviously I had already picked out the best ones!) because he "just couldn't let them throw the baby away in the garbage"! LOL! He actually asked me when you did the pics Jackie if you printed them out to look at because he didn't want them thrown away afterwards!
:biglaugh

Yeah, it's such a tough position.... I would almost rather GIVE someone photos than have them scan them b/c not only do they look crappy scanned and printed, but they then reflect poorly on me b/c the quality is crap. kwim?

That cracks me up about Brian. I know a LOT of people who do in person proofing with the images already printed for that exact reason. Unfortunatly, I don't make enough money doing what i'm doing to be able to "hope" that someone will buy those prints, b/c he's right - they go in the garbage if they dont!
The reason placeslike JCP and Sears, etc, do stuff like that is b/c they print right on sight... so once their printer is paid off, they spend pennies per print on paper and ink, and that's it.

[My3sonsplus1]

Even if you are only scanning for our own personal use (screensaver, myspace, etc) it is still 110% ILLEGAL.

Scanning is considered a "digital reproduction" and is also considered copyright infringement


I figured that was likely true but didn't know for sure.

[My3sonsplus1]

HOWEVER, providing a client with a digital image in a printable size is implication that they are permitted to print the photo on their own.

I am confused. How is this different than scanning the 5x7 school photo? You mean a picture CD?

[LMS]

A photographer doesn't give digital images in printable sizes unless they are allowing you to print them yourself. a digital image which is sized for printing (HUUUUGE, FAR too large to view on any computer) would be given on CD
When you are buying a digital image, you are buying an image to use digitally.
When you are buying a print, you are buying only that ONE print, adn YOU scnaning it is illegal. If *I* wanted to scan it and give you that scan, that's one thing. but you scanning it without written permission is against the law

[becky]

jackie, i totally agree with you on everything you said. I have recently been getting requests for holiday cards and have flat out told my clients that unless they can give me a signed release form from the photographer, i can't use them.

[colleen&Kail]

i cant believe that a website would recommend doing that! i know places like walmart and longs are really strict about letting you make copies, that si why they make you pay for them at the counter instead of the machine. i know this because i did try to make copies of a picture i found in a magazine for a school project and walmart told me i oculdnt make copies of them.:bag

[My3sonsplus1]

A photographer doesn't give digital images in printable sizes unless they are allowing you to print them yourself. a digital image which is sized for printing (HUUUUGE, FAR too large to view on any computer) would be given on CD
When you are buying a digital image, you are buying an image to use digitally.
When you are buying a print, you are buying only that ONE print, adn YOU scnaning it is illegal. If *I* wanted to scan it and give you that scan, that's one thing. but you scanning it without written permission is against the law

what I was confused about was the "digital image" wording since "everyone is digital now" I "forgot"/mommabrained that digital is only digital until you print it :lol aka "prints from digital"/"digital prints" is different from "digital image". I thought you were saying if someone gives you a picture small enough to scan you could, and that sounded wrong, and it is :)